London Beat IV Tom Petsinis 12-40
George Stamkoski RER: I'm outside the theatre of the Greek cultural Centre in Melbourne, having just seen the play Zorbas Last Dance, a poetically licenced re-imagining of the relationship between the writer of the novel and film Zorba the Greek and Giorgis Zorbas, its main character. And I'm here with the play's author, Melbourne based playwright, poet, and math professor Tom Petsinis.
Tom Millions know the film Zorba the Greek and Nikos Theodorakis' memorable Bazookie led soundtrack, yet less is known about the novels acclaimed author Nicos Kazanzakis.
What inspired you to write this story about the relationship between the writer and the fictionalised character of his book, and what do you want audiences to know about Kazanzakis after seeing your play Zorbas Last Dance?
[00:00:44] Tom Petsinis, playwright: Thanks George. look, I was, always, interested in Kazantzakis as an author. He was a very prolific author. He wrote novels, he wrote plays, he wrote, poetry as well. He's considered, of course, one of the great, Greek authors of the 20th century. I was particularly interested in his novel, the Life and Times of Alex Zorba, which in English translated when Faber and Faber translated back in the early fifties was, became Zorba the Greek.
Now, the Zorba the character also intrigued me. Firstly, because, according to the novel, and in the novel he's mentioned as being a Macedonian, and something that I've always been interested in is this notion of identity. So I began to research the character of the, Zorba Lexi Zorba in the novel, and found out that he fact, he was based on a Gogi Zorba and my research began into Gogi Zorba.
He, he and cousins Zaki met on Mount Athos, and then they went on to do some various projects together, and then Ggi Zorba up and left and settled in Scorpio in what is now North Macedonia. And married a local woman, had children with a local woman and died. And his gravestone can still be found in the cemetery in Scorpio.
So this idea of, fiction and reality and the use of historical material and how it's transformed and what motivates what are the motiva motivating factors that authors use in transforming historical material into fictional material. So that interface between history and fiction, fact and fiction is explored in this play.
[00:02:25] George Stamkoski RER: You're watching the play from the audience tonight. And how did it feel when you see your creation lifted from the page and onto the boards?
[00:02:33] Tom Petsinis, playwright: It's always a, a heartening experience because as we know, writing is a solitary activity. I write essentially for the page how that then is lifted onto the stage by creative directors.
They've got their own vision, their own creativity. And as an author, I tend to step back, once, the script is handed over to a director. sometimes I see things that maybe I would've envisage en envisaged differently, but I'd really take a back step because I respect directors for the, the creativity that, that they bring to bear on a script.
this is the second production and, I feel that the actors, the second time round have got into the characters more and in a far more nuanced way than the first production.
[00:03:21] George Stamkoski RER: Yes, I saw, I'm seeing it for the second time myself. and I really agree with you there. They had much of a rapport.
They knew the characters better and they could play with them more, more freely. from what I know about the source material, the relationship between Kazaki and Zorba is arguably the emotional heart of the story at its core. Is this real, at its core? Is this really a story about identity and politics, or is it ultimately a story about friendship between two very different people?
[00:03:50] Tom Petsinis, playwright: I think you hit the nail on the head. Friendship is very important because as well as having the, the play is structured as a play within a play. So the internal play is the Kazaki Zorba, but we've got the external play, the contemporary play between two characters who resonate with the Kazaki Zorba and these two characters, the ageing playwright and the, terminally ill actor.
they, a very strong, bond of friendship exists between them. And this friendship is tested to the extent that, the, a the ailing actor wants to go out, not with traditional medicine, but wants to go out through the redemptive and the rejuvenating power of art and, theatre and music. So it is a play about friendship, but it's also a play about the power of art fiction, drama, music, to almost transcend the human experience.
[00:04:49] George Stamkoski RER: Was part of your motivation to rescue Kazaki from the fate of being upstaged by a single iconic melody and bring the writer back into the foreground?
[00:04:59] Tom Petsinis, playwright: Yes. look, the, the melody is very important because as you said, most people identify, the novel and the film with that music by, Theo Raki.
But in fact, and according to my research, the Bozoki instrument famous in the Zorba tune did not enter Greece until 1922, when there was a population exchange from Greeks, from Asia Minor, came into Greece, were repatriated to Greece, and brought their instruments with them. And the Bazookie was this.
Whereas, GGI Zba would not have known the Bazookie for most of his life. So my premise is that, GGI Zba would've responded to the predominant instrument in Macedonia at that time, which was the Gayda, the bagpipe
[00:05:43] George Stamkoski RER: in both the 1946 novel and the 1964 film, the character of Rggi Zorba, a miner, cook and a musician who plays the Santur, identifies himself as both Greek and Macedonian.
Yet today, these have become, I would venture to call them loaded identities, which are understood quite differently by nations across the Balkan Peninsula. Were questions of identity and belonging something you consciously wanted audiences to reflect on, or are they simply part of the historical reality from which the characters emerged?
[00:06:17] Tom Petsinis, playwright: Look, identity, of course. in, in the present, in the, in our day and age, there are, identities now are all form. You've got ethnic identity, you've got sexual identity, you've got political identity, and, identity is something that's really, at the core of, modern life. of course, I was exploring identity in this, and for me, the character of, Giorgi.
Zorba is a character who can embody multiple identities.
[00:06:42] George Stamkoski RER: Hang on, just start from me, for me,
[00:06:44] Tom Petsinis, playwright: the character. yeah. For me, the character of Yogi Zorba is important because he embraces multiple identities coexisting within him. So he's very much, a character, a Balkan character, if we can put it that way, because he travelled, prior to settling in, in Scorpio, he went to Romania, he went to Russia, knowing the Slavic language, he was able to get by, through these, other countries.
But, he was very much a, a, a multi sort of multi-ethnic character in many ways.
[00:07:13] George Stamkoski RER: Was Zorba a character who involuntarily became politicised, do you think?
[00:07:19] Tom Petsinis, playwright: I, by virtue of the fact that the novel was titled Zorba the Greek, set the scene. Look, there's no doubt that Zorba identified as a Greek, the fact that, and this is brought, quite evident in, in cousin sake's writing, but the fact that he, he accommodated this other language, the Slavic, which at the time possibly, was not referred to as Macedonian.
We won't go into the historical anti nce for a language, but, he certainly spoke, the other Slavic language that was spoken in the region of, where he was born, Solanica and Konani and Macedonia, which is in Presente Greece.
[00:07:54] George Stamkoski RER: Your play incorporates both Greek and Macedonian musical traditions.
What role does music play in telling this story? Is it more atmospherics or is it carrying part of the play's deeper message?
[00:08:07] Tom Petsinis, playwright: music is central to the play. It's central to, the character of, Zorba and, through,
[00:08:13] George Stamkoski RER: wait,
[00:08:14] Tom Petsinis, playwright: yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's okay. That's all right. Yeah, we'll take that again.
Shall I ask the question again? yeah.
[00:08:19] George Stamkoski RER: your play incorporates both Greek and Macedonian musical traditions. What?
Your play incorporates both Greek and Macedonian musical traditions. What role does music play in telling this story? Is it more atmospherics or is it carrying part of the play's deeper message?
[00:08:34] Tom Petsinis, playwright: Music is central to the play. It's certainly central to the character of Zba. And as I said earlier, the play is very much about, art.
And of course, music is in many ways the preeminent art because music, melodies transcend borders. Okay. Melodies, without words move everyone. And when words are added to melodies, they add a different dimension, maybe a more specific dimension, but melodies per se, are, transcendent. and this in many ways, again, captures the spirit of absorber in his exuberance, in his, as he says in his, when he hears that gator, he rises above, borders and Barb wire.
[00:09:15] George Stamkoski RER: You came to Australia as a new Australian, and now you are an Australian, and Australia is one of the world's most successfully integrated multicultural societies. Do you think a story about identity, migration, memory and cultural inheritance resonates differently here than it might elsewhere?
[00:09:34] Tom Petsinis, playwright: Yes. we are bringing, some of the Balkans into, Australia via this play.
But I like to think that the themes in the play, are relatable. The people can, identify with the themes irrespective of, where they are. And given Melbourne, we are such a, diverse, and Australia is such a diverse country with, multiple eth ethnicities. And, the, I was pleased that this play, was put on at the Greek Centre because it does help to build bridges between cultures, between, languages, cultures, and sometimes rivalries, can be, overcome, can be ameliorated through art.
[00:10:10] George Stamkoski RER: You've written novels, essays, and plays. Why did you decide to tackle this story through theatre rather than literature?
[00:10:18] Tom Petsinis, playwright: I thought the, the dramatics, of the, for me theatre is about, personalities and the chemistry between personalities and, like a chemical reaction. You put two elements together and a compound arises, and sometime that compound can have, explosive type of properties to it.
So I saw the, the dynamics between the, Zorba and cousin sas, having that, dynamic sort of kinetic, element to the relationship, which is the stuff of theatre, as is the contemporary story between the two friends vying for whether this plays going to be written and the motivation for its writing.
So again, the chemistry, the dynamic between characters is what propels me to write theatre as opposed to something a bit more discursive, which is a novel.
[00:11:03] George Stamkoski RER: You are a playwright and a novelist, a poet, and also a mathematics professor. Do these world, do these worlds ever intersect or do you keep them strictly separate?
[00:11:13] Tom Petsinis, playwright: No, they've intersected in, many works. I suppose in many ways my best known novel is a novel called the French Mathematician, in which I, took the bare bones of a young Frenchman ever is gir, who lived in born 1811, died 1832. So at the age of 21, he was shot and killed in a jewel. So I've taken the bare bones of his, life and written a, historical fiction, if you want to call it, called the French Mathematician.
And yeah, that, was, I would been looking to integrate mathematics and literature, and that work proved to be very successful. I've, looked at, I've written a whole collection of poetry all based on mathematics called Zero's Whisper, and I've got a, a play in train about, the ancient Greek female mathematician called CIA of Alexandria.
And her, she was a, a neo Platonist, the Pagan, if you like, and her conflict with the Christian Bishop of Alexandria who wanted Christianity to be the main religion back in 430 ad. So that's a story that integrates mathematics and, Christianity. And again, the, the tension between the two.
This is George Stamkoski, roving eye reporter, in the mood for smashing a few plates, wondering whether identity and culture are shaped more by art than politics. Signing off for the London Beat.